Transcript: Episode 57 – Sherlock Series 4 Predictions
BAKER STREET BABES PODCAST
EPISODE 57: Sherlock Series 4 Predictions, AIR DATE: 26/08/14
RUNNING TIME: 54:46, BABES: Curly, Lyndsay, Ashley, Ardy, Maria
TRANSCRIBED BY: Littlepippin76, EDITED BY: Kafers
Curly: And welcome to episode 57, the real 57, of the Baker Street Babes’ podcast. Today it’s me, Lyndsay Faye, Ashley, Maria, and Ardy, and today we are going to do a… drumroll please… [drumroll] predictions episode for Sherlock series 4! And that’s pretty special, ‘cos we can talk forever about it.
Curly: For those who don’t know, and I don’t know how you don’t know, but in case you don’t know, we are getting four new episodes of Sherlock! Four! Not three; four! It’s magic! There’s going to be a Special, which will probably be a Christmas special, it hasn’t been identified as a Christmas Special, but I think we can say it’s a Christmas Special, because the UK has traditions, and it’s either Easter or Christmas, so there you go. And then three new episodes for series four, so yes, it’s coming soon, it’s super exciting, and these will be our thoughts.
Curly: Does anyone have thoughts?
Maria: No, we just think about all of those things we do not expect, which is very…
Curly: Yeah, like, they’ll never expect this. Like, there was that amazing thing on Tumblr which was the list of all the AUs!
Lyndsay: I think they all ready wrote the tuna fish version.
Ashley: And in Claymation. That’s what I hope.
Lyndsay: It’s a question which just itches at the back of my spine: will John Watson, in the Christmas Episode, have a Richard III beard? It’s going to happen; that’s my speculation. That’s what I’m stuck on.
Ashley: With each tragic event, he just gets more extreme facial hair? And by the time we get to series 7, he’s got a whole angry prospector beard?
Curly: Yep, filming in January, and then coming out for Christmas or Easter, but it’s going to be Christmas, and we know that one story that happens at Christmas, so let’s just talk about that, because we’ll go chronological. So the Christmas special will most definitely be the Blue Carbuncle, which happens at Christmas.
Lyndsay: My God, that would be so beautiful! And they’ve already stolen so much shit though, from the Blue Carbuncle. Huge chunks of dialogue, and dumped it… like the hat, Henry Baker’s hat is all up in the empty hearse. And then you’ve got the guy who loves betting, I don’t remember the minor character’s name in er…
Ardy: That was Fletcher in the Hounds.
Lyndsay: Yeah! In Hound! And you’ve kind of already adapted the Blue Carbuncle.
Curly: But there hasn’t been a goose.
Ashley: But they can’t just have a goose. They have to turn it into something just a little bit different, so it’s going to be like, Turkey Buzzard or something.
Maria: No, it’s going to be the turkey from the Mr Bean episode, so Sherlock trying to cook.
Curly: Oh my God! Sherlock trying to cook a turkey.
Ashley: Just ninety minutes of Sherlock trying to cook Christmas dinner.
Maria: Oh fantastic, Martha Stewart!
Lyndsay: After having watched some of these season three episodes, I feel like they could devote a full ninety minutes to Sherlock cooking turkey.
Lyndsay: And they wouldn’t even apologise! They’d be like, ‘this episode is about a train’. And it’s funny because it can’t, except that it did!
Lyndsay: Yes, and you can just show Sherlock baking a turkey, occasionally taking it out of the oven, basting it, but he’d use like a chemical pipette, some sort of… what are they called… erlinger, erling-meyer… those glasses.
Lyndsay: Erlenmeyer! Thank you!
Ashley: I want to see him make a trifle with mathematical precision.
Ardy: I would pay good money to watch that, actually.
Curly: So now that we’ve written the script for the Christmas Special
Maria: I could just imagine him putting a Christmas pudding on fire.
Lyndsay: Oh totally; he would set fire to the pudding real fast. I have a question about the Christmas special though, and it is this; does anybody think that Jim Moriarty is actually not dead? Because they have to deal with that, if it’s going to be ninety minutes, and it’s the first one out of the box. Like, what’s going on here? Are they doing a real Moran? Are they actually bringing Andrew Scott back? It’s all kind of cray-cray.
Ardy: The thing that you need to appreciate, Lyndsay, is that continuity is not a strong suit of any Sherlock Holmes adaptation, and it wasn’t ACD’s either.
Ashley: Like when Sherlock came back with ‘I didn’t really fall down the falls; you just thought I did…’ Really I was in Tibet! Because…
Lyndsay: Because, reasons!
Ashley: And I didn’t tell you, because I couldn’t, because I changed my name, and it would have been very confusing for you.
Lyndsay: Confused and hurt and just lost, So I thought, you should probably just think I was dead for a super-long time.
Curly: Like with the Moriarty thing, I’m of two minds. One; I adore Andrew Scott and his portrayal, and part of me is like; I’m not that upset if you’re not dead, because I really enjoy you. But on the other hand, I’m kind of like; I think that it was such a brave and amazing thing, what they did, of having Moriarty kill himself.
Curly: So there’s like, there’s all of these theories…
Lyndsay: OK, but how are they possibly going to get away with a screenplay that’s like; I pretend committed suicide… No I pretend committed suicide!
Curly: Well there is the theory that if they’re playing off the canon that James Moriarty had a brother named… James Moriarty, if they’re going to do the twin thing….
Lyndsay: Yeah, that would be so funny.
Ashley: Rule number one; no identical twins!
Curly: I know!
Lyndsay: But Ash! It’s canonical!
Ardy: Sort of.
Lyndsay: The parents, the Moriarty parents like; Ethel and er, Tim, looked at their little twin sons and were like; ‘ah they look exactly alike! How are we ever going to tell them apart?’ and they were like ‘Ah, fuck it; let’s call you both James!’
Ashley: We’ll never have to tell you apart; we’ll just pretend that you’re the same person.
Lyndsay: That is Occoms Razur working in a really brilliant way.
Curly: So it’s a theory.
Maria: And there’s the idea that Janine’s really related to Moriarty.
Curly: Yeah, that Janine is also a Moriarty, that’s a fun theory. And there’s the thing that they just use Andrew Scott as the things that Moriarty had planted before he offed himself.
Lyndsay: True, and apparently he lives in Sherlock’s mind-palace now, so they can just use Andrew Scott whenever they want.
Ashley: That is true.
Curly: So it could be that as Sherlock’s making the Christmas turkey, it could be that he keeps getting, like, Jim Moriarty in his head going; ‘no no no no! You have to turn the heat down now!’
Lyndsay: You have to brine it first! Why didn’t you brine it first!
Ashley: God, stop now!
Ashley: You didn’t adequately clean it!
Lyndsay: Everybody knows you have to brine the turkey!
Maria: And then when he serves it and they eat it, and John Watson breaks a tooth because the Blue Carbuncle is in the thing and nobody noticed.
Lyndsay: OK, so I have a question as a stupid American, like I’m a dumb American, when the BBC does Christmas specials, are they always Christmas themed?
Ashley: Very often.
Ashley: More often than not.
Ardy: The big one is the Doctor Who one, and that’s always Christmas themed.
Lyndsay: So, since it’s the same show writers, we can be pretty certain that they’re going to be doing Blue Carbuncle then.
Ashley: What was the other short story that Granada did as a Christmas episode? You remember that one where…
Ardy: Oh, was that the Cardboard Box? The last one.
Maria: Yeah, because it’s Christmas.
Maria: Yeah, one of the presents…
Ashley: And Sherlock Holmes decorating his chemistry set.
Lyndsay: That is adorable. Yeah, you could switch any number of them, I mean lots take place in winter, so maybe they just pick a winter one, or, they don’t even care.
Lyndsay: Yeah, it’s going to be like…
Maria: It’s going to be summer holidays in the Bahamas.
Lyndsay: It’s going to be The Yellow Face!
Ashley: It’s going to be Lady Frances Carfax in the South of France…
Ardy: Oh my god.
Ashley: Summer, for no reason.
Lyndsay: Belated, like, three way honeymoon.
Lyndsay: John, Sherlock and Mary are on a fucking beach in the South of France with a tiny Christmas tree. On their beach chairs.
Ashley: The sad thing is, that all of this is equally as plausible as whatever they’re going to come up with.
Ashley: So after the Christmas Special, after they fail to brine the turkey, they all go to France, in a huff, and end up in a large coffin, what are the remaining three episodes going to be? The theme is darker, like darker than double suicide?
Lyndsay: Yeah, really.
Ardy: Yes, we need to talk about John Watson losing people, I think.
Curly: Yeah, mostly because I really want… I wanted series three to end this way, but I want series 4 really to end with Garridebs.
Lyndsay: Oh my God…
Curly: John Watson loses everyone, and then Sherlock Holmes loses John Watson.
Lyndsay: Girl, you have to admit though, that half the reason you want that, is for feels.
Lyndsay: But part of the reason you want that is that we’re guaranteed another season afterwards.
Curly: Yes. Yes.
Lyndsay: Because it’s another cliff hanger, and they cannot leave us hanging, so that means season 5.
Curly: But it would also play off of His Last Vow, it would ensure that Sherlock completely messes that up, that obviously Mary will be dying at some point, so he will fail on that account, and then if Watson gets shot, and he’s bleeding out, then he’s failed on that point, and it would be completely crumbling, that he’s failed. And I want that.
Lyndsay: You’re right, I want that too, but they’re going to do it, they’re just going to muck with his tender little spirit.
Curly: I can’t wait.
Curly: I just aggressively want Garridebs.
Ardy: I’ve been aggressively wanting it since series 2, so I’m completely with you on this one.
Lyndsay: I have a question; so since dark, right, darker?
Curly: Dark and unexpected.
Lyndsay: Well what about Devil’s Foot? Can we throw out Devil’s Foot? Because, man…
Maria: Yes! Yes please!
Lyndsay: That would be crazy awesome.
Curly: And for those of our listeners who don’t know what that story entails, would you like to give a summary?
Maria: OK, so Holmes has barely avoided a nervous breakdown, so he’s sent on holiday, which he doesn’t like, because he doesn’t want to be on holiday, because he doesn’t do holidays, and John Watson comes with him, obviously, because that’s what he does, so they are on holiday, on the coast, and they take long romantic walks and they talk about things, and eventually they meet someone who is… you know, skip the plot, the important part of that is essentially in the end, to solve the case, Holmes almost kills both of them, and he’s severely traumatised afterwards. So those are the important parts, if you skip the plot. It’s a moment where he realises that perhaps his methods aren’t always the best ones, so it’s a very emotional story.
Lyndsay: That was a very concise summary! I think that where the BBC could take this specifically in terms of their production values, and when they get these brilliant directors, and go all crazy with the stupidly pretty transitions, and Ardy can talk, like, more effectively about them.
Ardy: Bring back Paul McGuigan, please, for the love of all that’s good…
Curly: Oh, Paul McGuigan, we want…
Ardy: Yes, if we do Devil’s Foot I would like him to direct it because it would look absolutely gorgeous.
Lyndsay: So Devil’s Foot… thank you, I think the exact same thing, but at this point also Jeremy Lovering has some pretty brilliant moments directing as well, but the plot of the story dealing with siblings killing siblings over a ridiculous… it’s like half grudge and half greed, but it’s so dark! The murder in the first place is so dark. And then you’ve got this guy who spent a long time in Africa, who is in love with Brenda Tregennis, and he, for vengeance, you know, murders the murderer, and I have no idea what could possibly be darker in terms of plot. Like, the plot is super dark, well, Cardboard Box is super dark too, but like, that one is awful, and you just feel horribly for all of these people, and the same time that you… you know, often with Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, you’re like, I’m super-engaged with you two personally, but I don’t actually remember the names of the minor characters, and the stockbroker’s clerk, let’s be real here, I do not remember presently who stars in the Stockbroker’s Clerk. I mean, seriously, who stars in the Stockbroker’s Clerk? But in the Devil’s Foot, Mortimor Tregennis kills his sister, Brenda, over just fucking spite and greed, and it’s disgusting, and then he’s murdered in turn by her, well, secret fiancé, technically I think Leon Sterndale, who’s name I also remember, because he’s amazing, and super-engaging, so if they decided to do that story, I’d be nothing but squee.
Ashley: It had so many wonderful gothic elements that you think it would be just screaming to Mark Gatiss, because he does the gothic stories.
Maria: And the character is so complex, he’s so interesting, you don’t trust him, Holmes doesn’t trust him, and then in the end, Holmes just basically goes, OK, if somebody, if I loved someone that much, I would completely understand why he did it. So it’s this moment where Holmes actually realises and understand why a murder has been committed, and he’s completely backing it, so that’s the really interesting thing.
Lyndsay: Absolutely. It’s like the Abbey Grange that way, and those other super-dark ones, and I would love it if they adapted the Abbey Grange, like, that case is so brilliant, but it seems like some of those quieter cases, like the Abbey Grange involves a lot of real, actual crime solving and forensics, and let’s be honest here, in the context of the Doyle story, it’s like there’s a lot of actual, factual clues as opposed to daring do and like running around shooting devil hounds. You know what I’m saying?
Lyndsay: It seems like they’re at the BBC a little bit less inclined to adapt those cases. I mean, does anyone want to comment on that?
Curly: I think that kind of goes back to what people think Sherlock is; is it a detective show, or is it a show about a detective? Because I think maybe that series 1 you could argue that it was a detective show, but the switch happened and now it’s very much a show about a detective. So that’s not to say that they won’t really case heavy episodes in the future, but I think they’re much more interested in concentrating on the characters as people.
Maria: It might be like a back story or something, but not something to focus on.
Ashley: There are wonderful revealing moments in something like the Devil’s Foot when you finally see that Sherlock has said; ‘no, I’m so sorry, I did this, it was horrible to me, but doubly so for a friend.’ You know, that’s a wonderful moment. I think that they can be character based, if they’re adapted that way.
Lyndsay: Yeah, absolutely, but with the devil’s foot, you’ve got all the bells and whistles with the use of hallucinogenic drugs, but let’s be honest, that could be really pretty television. I don’t know if something like… I might want the Abbey Grange, but it’s potentially no very flashy television. The Devil’s Foot absolutely is flashy Mcflash television.
Ardy: Whenever I think of the Devil’s Foot, I think of the Granada episode, and the way that it looks like a really bad LSD trip.
Ardy: I mean, it was the eighties, and they have aged quite badly, but at the time, you know, it must have been quite scary watching that I can imagine, so something like that for twenty-first century audiences I would quite like to watch.
Lyndsay: Oh absolutely. And you’re so right about that not aging particularly…
Ardy: It did not age gracefully. It’s one where I feel it’s the same like Garridebs, the relationship of Holmes and Watson really kind of gets explored and gets pushed to some limits even, because essentially Watson has to drag Holmes out of the room, because Holmes is unconscious and Watson is the one who’s still standing because he’s not overpowered, and I think that that could just be emotionally powerful.
Lyndsay: So often, John Watson, I wonder if you agree, Ardy, but John Watson is the dude in distress a lot.
Lyndsay: And it’s not that I mind the feels, feels are fun, but John Watson, I mean, really? Do you have to just tie him to a chair and have strange fu man chu characters try to kill him all the time?
Ardy: This is why I did appreciate it so much when he did kind of badass stuff like break somebody’s arm or sprain somebody’s wrist because he’s a doctor and he knows how to do that stuff, and he would just do it because it’s what needs doing… if there was more of that, that would be really good.
Maria: And that could be something cool you could do with the Devil’s Foot, because he’s basically, you know, doctoring the entire time.
Lyndsay: The whole case is about him doctoring Sherlock Holmes, coming at him doctor style, and then later being; ‘you know, I just saved your ass, because you’re a moron.’
Maria: And you know what would fit really nicely into this? The Mosgrave Ritual. Because it’s a similar situation, especially if you think of the Granada version of it, I mean, he’s wearing the shock blanket when they…
Lyndsay: Thank you for calling it the shock blanket – that is brilliant! That is exactly what that grey, tatty blanket is.
Maria: It is. They just updated it and made it orange.
Ashley: So we’ve decided that those are going on the schedule.
Curly: Yes, so for the Christmas episode we have the Blue Carbuncle/the Cardboard Box. For episode 1 let’s just say, the Devil’s Foot, with elements of the Musgrave Ritual.
Lyndsay: Yeah. It’s the middle one that’s fiddly.
Ashley: Can we please have Baron Gruner in here?
Lyndsay: Kitty Winter, that shit is so dark and he’s a sexual predator! That’s perfect!
Ashley: That would translate to a modern setting so well, because that was ahead of its time in its content. Plushe’s creepy as hell and I want to see him cast as a creep monster.
Lyndsay: Oh! He is the sexual sociopath – that guy is awful.
Maria: And they could do the database, just put it online or something, you know.
Lyndsay: Or he has this secret.. like it’s bounced towards like, thousands of different satelites but it’s like it’s a pay for… he could be a snuff film, you know.
Ashley: He loaded up horror to the darkness. He’s a creeper.
Lyndsay: He’s a total creep. Baron Greener is gross. Also that has mad feels, because that’s the only actual case in the Sherlockian canon, I mean Holmes gets a little bit skritched up every once in a while, like in Navel Treaty and in Solitary Cyclist, but in The Illustrious Client, he gets his fucking ass kicked.
Lyndsay: And it’s a different thing to see Sherlock Holmes get shot and in the hospital than it is to see him beaten to a pulp, so if they want to go dark, like crazy-dark, they could definitely do that with the Illustrious Client.
Curly: Ashley, do you want to give us a summary of the Illustrious Client?
Ashley: Essentially you have this horrible creepy man, he’s an Austrian Baron, and he is engaged to be married to a young woman of high means who is sort of bewitched by him, and all the people around her are telling her that he’s no good, that they’re pretty sure that he murdered his previous wife, and that she should have anything to do with him, and the more they tell her ‘don’t do it’, like a snotty teenager, the more she’s like, ‘no, I’m totally going to marry this guy,’ and eventually they go to their last resort which is trying to get Sherlock Holmes to convince her or somehow get around it, and part of the joy of the case is that he’s at his wit’s end, and he really tries all of the good ways to do it, you know, he tries to out-think him and he tries to talk him out of it, he tries to talk her out of it, and eventually they’re like ‘screw it, we’re just going to break into his house’ because we can’t think of anything else, and he engages Watson to become an overnight expert on Chinese pottery, which is a wonderful little detail from the plot, and they eventually reveal that he’s been keeping this diary of nasty lusts creep-monster pervertness… somebody add more horrible adjectives, and he’s left this trail of women whose lives he’s ruined, either by murder or leaving them broken and not able to find work because they’re fallen women, so to speak. So it’s great. It’s got all the great elements to it.
Lyndsay: And then, Ashley, you have to tell them what Kitty does. Because it’s awesome.
Ashley: Well she is one of the women who is left ruined by Baron Gruner, and she just hates his face so much that she takes some vitriol, and she burns it the fuck off.
Lyndsay: Which is not actually amusing, but it’s so satisfying.
Maria: Same with Milverton, where we’re just, ‘yeah! Shoot him in the face again!’
Ashley: If anyone no longer deserves his face, it’s Baron Gruner.
Maria: And it would be an interesting update to think of the role of women in society, because that’s definitely changed, and to see how that might become something, first of all it’s not just women, or how far that creepiness goes, and what it does to the people who are victims, so that could be interesting to see.
Lyndsay: Well if that was the case, and if that were the tack, I’d be like, Gatiss, man, tackle that one! I know he’s into the gothic horror element, but dude, that would be as bad as hell if you were to pen that story.
Curly: I just want you to know, Lyndsay, that currently you have Mark Gatiss writing all three of these episodes.
Lyndsay: You’re welcome! You’re welcome, world. Actually, you know what, I don’t have the Steven Moffat hang-ups that some people do, and I think that some of the stuff that he writes is absolutely fucking brilliant, and I liked Coupling back in the day, man, I think that him and Sue Vertue are like an amazing power couple, I’m in to that, but I’m a Mark Gatiss fangirl. What are you going to do?
Curly: There’s nothing shameful about that. Christmas Special, just to recap, Blue Carbuncle/Cardboard box, Episode 1 Devil’s Foot with elements of the Musgrave Ritual, Episode 2 the Illustrious Client, Now the finale.
Curly: (whispers) Three Garridebs.
Maria: What about the Dying Detective. Everybody dies.
Curly: Everybody dies.
Ashley: Everybody dies, they rebirth the series with entirely new cast.
Maria: I have a great idea. I mean everything’s already really dark, and then Holmes completely screws up by making John thinks that he’s dying again, which, you know, he does in every season, and then afterwards the Garridebs thing happens, so Holmes is extremely guilt-ridden. That would be really, really dark.
Lyndsay: That’s what I want to happen. We’re cackling madly about, ‘Oh my God, this thing would be so fucked up, I want them to do that.’
Ashley: Which character can we totally ruin? Go.
Lyndsay: This is their mojo dude.
Curly: Though to be slightly serious, for Garridebs, it’s mostly the ending that I want, because the rest of the story is kind of, meh.
Lyndsay: Well the rest of the story is the Stockbroker’s Clerk and the Red-Headed league, except not funny.
Ardy: That is the most beautiful synopsis of that story that I’ve ever heard. It’s so completely true.
Lyndsay: Thank you. I want to address the elephant in the room, because probably we all see the elephant, but as a feminist I want to say I don’t know what’s going to happen to Mary Morstan, but I’m concerned.
Lyndsay: Or AGRA, you know, whatever this girl’s name is. And they made the decision to go ‘oh my God, we have to be metal, turn it up to eleven, and I’ve said this many times, but I’m like you can’t just keep topping yourself. It’s like, at the end of the first series, Sherlock Holmes is about to die! And then at the end of the second series, Sherlock Holmes actually fake dies! And then at the end of the third series, Sherlock Holmes really actually dies on the operating table, and it’s like, how far can you take this without it being stupid at a certain point, and I love the show so fucking much, it is like a brilliant contribution to Sherlockian culture and history, and I think that it is absolutely perfectly cast and acted, and I love it to pieces, but if they do something with Mary Morstan that is really screwed up, I’m going to be really mad. And John Watson in the canon does not have a wife and children. Or he has like ten wives, and like thirty children, I don’t know…
Ardy: Three continents…
Lyndsay: Some in Afgahnistan and he probably doesn’t know several of them if we consider birth control methods in the nineteenth century. There are John Watsons littered across India.
Ardy: Oh, you bet.
Curly: There are two facets to the Mary situation I guess we’ll call it, one is baby Watson, because I think that even the Beeb will not go as melodramatic as to kill the baby. I think the baby will be born. I think we’ll probably get an adorable montage of Sherlock babysitting baby Watson which will be hilarious, and will actually make me very happy.
Lyndsay: That’s pleasing.
Curly: Yeah, because imagine that they’re going to put the baby in a giant beaker or something.
Lyndsay: Do you realise you just turned BBC Sherlock into the Ronald Howard, Mary Ann Crawford series.
Curly: Yep, it’s a particular skill. But my theory is that if Mary doesn’t die, then something like the AGRA part of her will be revealed, or if she is actually evil, which I’m OK with as long as they do it correctly and commit to it, that if she is in line with Moriarty or whatever, that John and Sherlock will give her the chance to take the baby and go, just to get out of their lives.
Maria: And live with Irene?
Curly: Yeah, sure. Why not? Go shack up with Irene. That would be awesome.
Lyndsay: And everyone who’s listening to this is that it’s fanfic waiting to happen.
Curly: So this is like one theory, but if they do, because the thing is if they kill Mary, then what happens to the baby?
Lyndsay: She dies!
Curly: Yeah, I imagine she will. Also because Amanda said that she thinks it’s awesome that Mary dies, and will kill John Watson’s heart.
Maria: Yes! More pain!
Lyndsay: Yeah, and that’s like perfect, because Amanda Abingdon is an amazing, wonderful, perfect human being, but I think that additionally, these guys are such Sherlock Holmes fanboys that they can’t actually depart from canon so much that they just ignore these big aspects of the story.
Curly: And they also love killing people.
Ashley: What if Mycroft steals the baby and just hides it somewhere.
Ashley: And every now and again, John is like ‘so, where’s my baby?’
Maria: Oh, I have a theory.
Curly: What’s your theory?
Ashley: This is already the best theory ever.
Maria: The theory is, do we really know that Kate Middleton was actually pregnant?
Lyndsay: Well I didn’t see a piss test, but she could be.
Maria: Because if Mycroft just decides to pull some favours, you know.
Curly: So baby Watson is actually Prince George.
Ardy: No, Prince George is Baby Watson. That would be completely and utterly awesome.
Curly: It’s a choice.
Ashley: It’s a bold choice.
Ardy: It would be very BBC. Because the BBC likes having fun with the royal family, because they’re the only people guaranteed not to sue you whatever you say about them.
Lyndsay: Right, and this is also a strong choice. It’s a definitive choice.
Curly: Yes. There’s this the baby, what’s going to happen to the baby, because I cannot perceive series five being Sherlock, John and a baby.
Lyndsay: And you know what’s also awful about this whole question? It’s that in narratives there are certain things you can get away with, and certain things you can’t, so you can fridge a girl, there’s all sorts of stuff you can get away with doing, with women, but it’s like, babies and pets, those are the things that you’re not allowed to fuck with apparently. On television, it’s like you can’t kill the dog, or the cat, and the baby, seriously, I mean, if that’s part of the plot, I’m going to find myself pretty skeeved by the whole…
Curly: The only way that baby murder would be… not OK, that sounds horrible, I guess that would work, if it was integrated somehow into like a plot or a case, or if Moriarty is back, if he kidnaps the baby and he kills it and… I don’t know.
Lyndsay: I don’t even know any…
Ashley: I don’t know.
Curly: They can’t lose the baby, she is so preggers, that would be such a cop out if she lost it. Because why even introduce it if you’re going to have a miscarriage?
Ashley: To rip out John Watson’s heart.
Lyndsay: Yes, exactly. Again, that’s like the fridging thing again, you know, I don’t like the fact that Mary Morstan is about to be fridged, but let’s all be real here: she is.
Lyndsay: That is going to happen in the next season, and I know a lot of people can’t stand how metal she was in the third episode, because I think the writing was really weird and skewed, and the decision not to tell Amanda Abington that this is going to be the arc of your character is very strange, but you know, they’re brilliant show writers, and maybe it’s all going to work out for everyone’s good! But with Mary Morstan I know that they’re going to cue the sort of canonical line there. They’re going to figure out a way to do it that is super-super-metal, and I just hope that they don’t get so metal that they piss everyone off in the process, because she was such a wonderful character in the first two episodes, y’know?
Curly: Because everyone knows it’s going to happen. So they’re like OK, then how… There are some people who are going to be absolutely delighted when it happens. There are going to be some people who are going to be angry when it happens, so it’s kind of good that we know it, like the canonically that it does, so that everyone can not be sidelined by it, or maybe we will be like, all of a sudden she’s just like having tea, and all of a sudden she just gets shot in the head, like ‘what the shit?’ That could be a way for it to happen, and it’s like ‘Oh my God! That just actually happened!’
Ashley: Maybe they’re going to go super-canonical and they’re just going to turn up at the Christmas special and she’s just not there.
Lyndsay: That’s exactly it!
Curly: She’s just not there.
Ashley: The first rule of Mary Morstan is that we don’t talk about Mary Morstan. She’s just like gone now.
Lyndsay: Except to refer to it for like two seconds. No, you’re right!
Maria: It could be imagine that it’s some underlying theme that she dies in a terrorist attack, because that’s occurred a couple of times, so for something to actually explode eventually, which hasn’t yet happened. That could work, she could be on a plane somewhere, with the baby, or something. Or on the tube, they could try to work in the bombings in London.
Lyndsay: You mean make it politically topical at the same time.
Maria: Exactly. And it would work because it wouldn’t just be killing off Mary, but a tragedy about this larger than beyond the lives of just those four people.
Lyndsay: That’s smart! You should tweet them!
Ashley: Because they probably haven’t figured it out yet.
Maria: They’re going to read Tumblr, for all of those things that we can’t possibly imagine.
Ardy: Yeah, my issue is that I know it’s going to happen, and I know that there are very, very precious few ways that it could happen that I’m going to be OK with.
Lyndsay: Thank you, Ardy.
Ardy: I think I’m going to opt for not caring and not looking at Tumblr. But it annoys me a little bit like that, because I know that this thing’s going to happen, and they’re probably not going to handle it very well given their track record, so yeah, I just kind of want to get it over with, really.
Lyndsay: God, but it might be awesome! We don’t know.
Ardy: Yeah, well it might be, but there are very very few ways, of which Maria’s just mentioned one which I could actually imagine myself being OK with.
Curly: I think that she’s, especially with her assassin background, I think she needs to go out fighting.
Ardy: She needs to go out with a bang, definitely.
Curly: Yeah, she has to go out fighting, or she has to go out with a terrorist attack or something like.
Maria: She could be on a job. You know, it could be something that she’s doing for all the right reasons and she dies on the job.
Lyndsay: You know what I really need from this next season? And they had better give it to me before she is actually offed, because inevitably she will be, but I need her and John Watson going full ninja, commando assassin on some sort of mission. So now, which case is that? I need her paired, I need just Amanda and Martin being, I mean, we’re just both deadly as fuck.
Lyndsay: Like going into a super-dangerous situation as a team, like that would be awesome.
Ardy: We could do some… oh, oh, The Valley of Fear, with the secret agent thing going on.
Lyndsay: Yeah, you’d have to copy the names instead of the context but at the moment, the Pinkertons aren’t very topical. But you’re right, that would be totally the right structure.
Ashley: And it’s probably not a Finnian movement. It’d have to be something else.
Curly: But like the spirit of the Valley of Fear.
Maria: Like undercover and…
Lyndsay: Because apparently they’re both total badasses. It would be kind of a shame to waste that.
Curly: It needs to be shown, rather than being like just ‘yes, I was a former assassin.’
Lyndsay: And the BBC has done a really interesting thing, making Mary Watson this person who is now very morally ambiguous, because already John and Sherlock are morally ambiguous in all kinds of fucking ways, and she was this, y’know, she was this pretty charming person who is now also deeply badass and morally ambiguous. But it feels like, to me, a tiny bit, like the same sort of gimmicky move that Elementary made with Irene Adler, because Elementary taking Irene Adler and being all like, she’s a girl and she’s a badass so she has to be a super-villain, and I’m like; ‘you know what? Nyaaa she doesn’t.’ But it seems like the same move, sorry.
Ashley: Some of us are girls and badasses and we’re not super-villains.
Curly: Some of us are super-villains.
Lyndsay: Well, Kris is!
Ashley: Only twenty per cent of the people on this podcast, right now, are super villains, and all of them are female and badass.
Maria: I think what I really appreciated about the last one was them sitting down, and Sherlock recognising that they’re all fucked, in many ways, and it’s something like, y’know, because it’s something like John Watson has always been holier than though, even though he’s not, he’s a terrible person sometimes. Especially if you go back and watch the first few episodes, he’s not a nice person, he’s just a really good person with Sherlock Holmes. He’s not a very polite person either, so in a way, I think it’s really important to draw that line at that point and say ‘look at us, we’ve been through a lot, we’ve done things that we regret, we’ve done terrible things that we don’t regret, and that is what makes us different, and that is what makes us all equal and apart, and that is why I appreciate the ending, and I can completely understand that Sherlock and Mary are getting along just fine. Because they recognise that, and John is still at a level where he has to cope with possibly also coming from the Army and living under specific codes, you know, ethics and to understand that he’s not that person, he’s not that soldier he used to be, because he’s changed, and I think that’s really important too, to establish that, because they can move on from that too, and just go back to solving crimes. It’s sort of like this therapy session that they had.
Lyndsay: I’ve never thought of it that way.
Curly: But just to play devil’s advocate, there’s the theory and lots of discussion online that maybe the whole forgiving of Mary by John, is it a ruse? Because people are citing the fact that if ever Sherlock was in danger, John would, as Maria just said, he’s not necessarily a good person, but he always threatened to kill them, so the fact that she actually murders Sherlock, is he actually OK with that, or is he biding his time. Did he read the AGRA thing?
Maria: Oh, I like this theory.
Curly: It’s interesting, and I think that a lot of people have issues with series three, I think it’s because nothing actually resolved in it. I think that it’s very much a link between series two and series four, and that’s why the Moriarty thing is in there, it’s like a transitional series, I think.
Ardy: Yeah, I kind of feel like I’m still mid-season really, because nothing tied up.
Curly: Yes so is things that are going to happen in the Christmas special and in series four, is that going to resolve the whole AGRA thing, is there any more to that? Does the Beeb think that it has completely closed that box, or is it more open? And that brings out, I think it’s why there’s still so much discussion about Mary and her actual intentions and who she actually is.
Lyndsay: Well and you bring up an interesting point with John with him potentially having been complicit in pseudo forgiving her but not, because that is a really interesting theory, but the John Watson that I know and love from the books, that would never occur to him. And so it’s a fascinating theory, and I understand exactly why people have come up with it, and the reason they’ve come up with it is really kind of crazy storytelling. And like, I don’t want to criticise the show, because I love this show so, so much, but like, they took a character who you expected so certain things from this character, and then they had her literally kill the title character, like in a hospital, dead. Right? And he just claws his way back out of it. So it’s just sort of what do you expect people to conclude? I honestly just don’t think that enough thought was put into it.
Ashley: I agree.
Lyndsay: That is my solution, I mean, yeah you can come up with any amount of theories about it, but I don’t think that they were looking that far ahead. They were just ‘this is so fucking metal!’
Ashley: We can write ourselves out of it!
Lyndsay: They’re going to be rushed, and I’m like, I don’t really like rushed as a band, but I get what you’re trying to do here, and that’s the impression that I got, and so I think that that theory specifically is super-interesting, but like, do you, and as devil’s advocate, please argue in favour, Kris, do you think that John Watson is capable of pretending to forgive his wife and then fucking with her?
Maria: Who’s carrying his child.
Curly: I’m actually going to go with ‘yes’, just because, and this relies solely on the fact that if he did read the AGRA thing, and if he found out the truth, and I think that there’s a point that if you do love someone, then you will forgive them for certain things, but I think the fact that he has threatened to kill every single person that’s even mentioned or tried to threaten Sherlock. Right back in the Reichenbach fall when the superintendent, the chief was just making fun of him and he punched him in the face, the golem when he was holding him again was like ‘let him go or I will kill you…’ He killed the cabbie. So the fact that one, Sherlock did die on the operating table, and then back when they’re at 221B when he was internally bleeding and going into cardiac arrest, he saw that, and I think that just the look on his face when he looked at Mary then, and the fact it then switched like the Christmas stuff, there has to be something in there, and I want to believe that there’s something else in there, but that’s where the whole issue is, that it’s transitional; that we don’t know. And if it turns out that they have closed that book, that they have finished it off, I know there’s going to be a lot of people going, that is very lazy and obnoxious, and it hurts me to say that because I do love the show so much, and I like Mary as a character, I think that she’s super-interesting, but I want there to be a full circle of a story there.
Lyndsay: Can I just be super-obnoxious and point out to the to anybody who listens to our podcast, that Mary Morstan has not done anything to John Watson that Sherlock Holmes didn’t do first.
Curly: It’s true.
Lyndsay: Yeah. Because Sherlock Holmes died on purpose first. So if he’s really that pissed with Mary Morstan for killing Sherlock Holmes, let’s take a minute.
Curly: I’ve been trying to work through it so much myself, and a lot of what I’ve been spouting is just devil’s advocate stuff and not stuff that I necessarily believe to spark conversation.
Lyndsay: You’re doing it very cleverly, because those are interesting points.
Maria: Yes but it leaves… it doesn’t necessarily mean that he has to kill her, but I think it could definitely lead to a separation, and wasn’t there this theory that for some reason that people have looked at screenshots from the last scene that he doesn’t wear his wedding ring, which might have something to do with the fact that he didn’t feel that the marriage was right with Mary, but it could mean that they’re living in separation, even though they sort of made up, it could be implied but we’re not sure, and it could also solve the issue of the baby, that if they live in separation, then the baby doesn’t have to be around as much, and then, y’know,
Lyndsay: Maria, that’s super interesting because I would sort of usually think that that’s a sort of Arthur Conan Doyle move on the part of the showmakers where it’s like ‘Oh my God, James, how are you?’
Lyndsay: But there are people involved with that show who are super-careful, er, Arwin Wynn Jones, he was careful about everything, so it’s completely possible that that was deliberate.
Curly: I think everything’s deliberate in that show.
Lyndsay: I’m really excited for the new season.
Curly: Yeah, this is the whole sort of harping on about it, but the transitional thing, I think it would be really nice that we get, sort of like, end points.
Ashley: … provide you with closure, hahaha.
Curly: Oh, I’m so naïve.
Ardy: Oh, four years and we haven’t learned.
Curly: I know, we’ll never learn.
Lyndsay: they’re going to provide some answers; they have to, because otherwise, y’know, everyone will throw up their hands and walk away, but at the end of the series, one of the reasons I’m really hoping for Three Garridebs is because that would leave it on a cliffhanger, and I just trust them so much that I feel like if they leave it on a cliffhanger, they won’t fail to make another season.
Curly: I mean everyone involved has said that they want to continue making it, it’s just scheduling, and mostly because of Benedict, because he keeps doing fucking movies.
Lyndsay: Well it’s partly Martin’s fault too, I mean that guy is now accidentally is now a giant superstar too, so, I’m just so proud of them.
Lyndsay: You know what, you guys took a crazy little TV show that was supposed to be a modern adaptation of Sherlock Holmes, and not only did you knock it out of the god-damned park, but you made careers out of this, because Martin Freeman had previously really been thought about as Tim from the Office, and I cry over Tim from the Office, like I love the British The Office, Tim and Dawn OTP, I just weep over that show, it’s like, I love it, but you know, Benedict Cumberbatch was previously like, OK, strange little bit parts, and you know, and they do this show, and they’re both mega-stars afterwards, and I don’t think any of them would claim that it wasn’t to do with doing Sherlock and it being electric.
Lyndsay: And I think that that is important because I often remember, and it makes me feel happy when I do in a happy sad feels way that Basil Rathbone refused to do Sherlock Holmes apart from the ones that he was contractually obligated to do after Nigel Bruce died because he said he didn’t want to any more, because what would be the point? Because Nigel is dead. And Jeremy Brett and Edward Hardwick took him home from hospital, and you know, put him up, and they were best friends, and you know you’ve seen these moments where Robert Downey Jr is just like, he looks at Jude Law and he’s so happy! And it’s the same with Cumberbatch and Freeman. It makes these beautiful friendships, and I feel like that’s why we’re all podcasting right now also, because we’re watching very beautiful friendships, and I am really grateful to be a part of that. That’s all.
Curly: Aw. That was very lovely.
Lyndsay: I do think it’s beautiful.
Ashley: thank you, Lyndsay, the tear just went back in my eye.
Lyndsay: You’re welcome.
Curly: I guess if anyone else has anything to say… we’re coming up on an hour, so that will be dandy.
Ashley: So we’re going to send this podcast to them so that they can set up exactly the series that we’ve asked for, right?
Curly: And to recap, this is our plan for series four…
Lyndsay: We have a plan, and the plan is good.
Curly: Yes. For the special, which will undoubtedly be a Christmas special, we have the Blue Carbuncle/the Cardboard Box. Episode 1, the Devil’s Foot with sprinklings of the Musgrave Ritual. Episode 2, the illustrious client, and episode 3 the Valley of Fear and the Three Garridebs.
Ashley: Put a bow on it.
Curly: Yes. That is our theory, and if we get it right, you may send all royalties to email@example.com. Thank you.
Lyndsay: If we get it wrong you can just listen to the podcast again and giggle.
Curly: It was very interesting listening to our initial series two theories.
Maria: Oh did you do that? What happened in them?
Curly: It’s horrible.
Ardy: I had a wish list before series two and I looked at it after series three. There’s not been that much on it that’s been ticked off, actually.
Curly: nope, we got everything wrong, it was great.
Lyndsay: Kristina, are you saying that we occasionally make poor predictions?
Curly: I’m saying that I don’t’ think it’s likely that Baby Watson will be Prince George, but it’s a choice. That could happen.
Ardy: It would be very entertaining.
Curly: If that happens.
Ashley: That’s already true.
Lyndsay: I heard that Mulder and Scully were going to be guest stars.